Comments on Maison Fleury: Open Source, a modern day Marxist Utopia?

Alain, You live in fantasy land to think that jus...

2009-11-12T10:52:20.344-08:00

Alain,

You live in fantasy land to think that just because a successful project lives at Apache it will automagically be maintained by the community, be well documented, and have developers willing to do the monotonous stuff that is required of a polished piece of software. It is very hard to get passed these problems without direct or indirect commercial interest. Linux is a prime example of this. Without IBM, Red Hat, Novel, etc. it would just be a toy and never gotten off the ground.

Bill, LOL, thanks for keeping me grounded. Yes ...

2009-11-09T12:41:51.378-08:00

Bill,

LOL, thanks for keeping me grounded. Yes I tend to forget what a fucking pain in the ass it was. A more balanced view would be to say that communistic free resource was the enabler. At first we were able to reach early developers (such as yourself) and customers and beat SUN at marketing all because we had the internet. It was a communistic game changer and by and large we were a product of it (a symbiotic product given that wrote internet enabling software in return). But at the same time, you are entirely right, the only way we would have drudged through the whole ordeal was for a profit motive and that motivation it brings. That and a bunch of drugs to get through the day :) Yes there was nothing fun some days and the individual rewards felt justified and felt good at the end of the day. Again thanks for keeping me honest, I trust you are doing well.

Alain, yes and no. I didn't choose OSS as a mar...

2009-11-09T12:36:58.947-08:00

Alain,

yes and no. I didn't choose OSS as a marketing ploy. I chose OSS because I wanted to code and find like minded developers. Which I did. After working at SUN in Silicon Valley I realized it was a lonely place and headed online to find a "community".

It did turn out to be a great marketing ploy but not by design.

Yes, the company I built was definitely capitalistic in the sense that a lot of reward went to capital, if you enlarge capital to include "intellectual capital" and rewarding the developers that participated. The monetization was a necessity to live but not to deliver the product. Efforts like most of Linux where 90% of the development is funded by corporation and the result distributed for free prove you need some 'fuel' but the distribution is rather easy and as such monetization of the distribution, which is the basis for most proprietary models is not necessary or easy.

But I am rambling, the point I believe was that "communistic" like efforts would appear in fields that were not resource constrained. The internet is such a field and it has triggered a communistic wave, of which OSS, I repeat, may be a first instance of such modern models. They are hybrid models. Many other industries are feeling the impact, music, video, news, porn, home automation, medicine and the list goes on.

I think that OSS is not homogeneous, and the large...

2009-11-08T12:15:09.558-08:00

I think that OSS is not homogeneous, and the large part is not marxist utopian at all...

There is OSS foundations such as Apache Mozilla, BSD. And the developers there are motivated by the pride and their ideals (close to marxism utopia), and they can afford it if they have a job somewhere else, that'll let them pay the bills...

and there is commercial OSS, and there're no differences than proprietary software(see Eric Barroca's post (coming-out ?) about OSS: http://blogs.nuxeo.com/ebarroca/2009/08/commercial-open-source-or-just-a-free-demo.html). The profit gained from those companies is not shared with users, but with the shareholders...I guess, that this is what you did with JBoss.... I think that you choose OSS as a way to ramp-up your revenue... this is marketing ... and you built a very capitalist business model...

Am I wrong ?

Great analogy, Bill! That's up there with another ...

2009-11-03T00:34:23.124-08:00

Great analogy, Bill! That's up there with another one of yours that I remember: Spring is like a meal at McDonald's, or something like that--just remember the part about it being initially tasty, but difficult to digest later on...

"I agree with some of the new-Marxist statements o...

2009-10-27T08:52:50.077-07:00

"I agree with some of the new-Marxist statements of making certain things free, ..."

Nothing is free. Even reading the Marxist mental-diarrhea costs me a few more hairs from my head.

... and those are rare and priceless! ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyKB8OYL8nc

2009-10-26T11:13:14.224-07:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyKB8OYL8nc

Marc, I think you're much like a husband and wife ...

2009-10-26T07:57:35.461-07:00

Marc, I think you're much like a husband and wife who decide to have another child forgetting how much of a PITA pregnancy, birth, and the first few years are....

Beyond the fact that most OSS developers don't want to maintain their constributions, have you forgotten how much the OSS community eats their own? Without the financial (or even employment) incentive, this eatting your own can be a big detriment to continueing contributing...I know I would have quit 5 times over without the financial incentive.

I agree with some of the new-Marxist statements of making certain things free, specifically:

* telecommunications
* education
* medical care

IMO, I think we even have the technical ability to make energy free if we put the investment in. Its too bad we don't have the will. Not even Obama is willing to socialize energy.

Keif, nowhere have I claimed both things you think...

2009-10-22T11:00:55.226-07:00

Keif, nowhere have I claimed both things you think I have claimed.

Anon: I have read a lot of the austrian stuff, in fact that is where I started. On the mises.org website with desoto's excellent history of money and banking. In a sense they both say the same things, exploring the perils of central banking and fiat money.

It is good stuff however nowhere as incisive or insightful or rigorous as what the neo-marxist I highlight are doing. Check it out if you are so technically inclined. Banks more clearly appear as a massive defrauding by the "roving cavaliers of credit", they can quickly become a parasitic class.

if you're looking for a way to understand the bank...

2009-10-22T10:31:27.561-07:00

if you're looking for a way to understand the banks -- look to the austrian economists, not the marxists.

Scientists freely working together doesn't mean th...

2009-10-22T08:40:17.034-07:00

Scientists freely working together doesn't mean they don't get paid. As a FOSS person, I thought you'd already understand that there are plenty of ways for software scientists to make money in consulting. Or to be hired by hardware companies, or companies who use software as part of their business, but who aren't interested in licensing revenue.

I just meant that scientists freely working together is completely compatible with free market capitalism. Ergo, FOSS is not evidence of the validity of Marxism.

Keif, I think the point is that "humans creativity...

2009-10-22T08:06:11.008-07:00

Keif, I think the point is that "humans creativity" isn't unlimited but truly a function of talent, resources and time. Therefore it isn't "Free" as in beer and it deserves pay. Freely working together, as in "freedom" will yield unbounded collaboration and peer review. Also the "consumption" is unbounded by distribution and licenses in FOSS.

Andy, thanks for the words of encouragement. ;)

What was it F. Scott Fitzgerald said: "The test ...

2009-10-22T07:25:03.417-07:00

What was it F. Scott Fitzgerald said:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."

The flaw with your thinking is that software is a ...

2009-10-22T07:20:27.839-07:00

The flaw with your thinking is that software is a science, and science has always free. Even Milton Friedman believed that scientists should freely work together.

The free market is completely compatible with science. Even in the software field, look at all the hardware companies FOSS development.

Free software doesn't validate Marxism. Nothing will except a world with unlimited resources.